Listening Versus Hearing and Looking Versus Seeing with Rick Sammon
===
[00:00:00]
[00:00:29] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: what came first, music or photography for you.
[00:00:32] Rick Sammon: music.
[00:00:33] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Definitely music.
1964
[00:00:35] Rick Sammon: the Beatles. I mean, when I saw The Beatles, I said, okay, this is it. This is what I wanna do.
[00:00:41] Learning Guitar and Early Experiences
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[00:00:45] Rick Sammon: So I had a, a harmony. My parents got me a, me and my brother, a harmony, acoustic guitar. probably cost 12 bucks back then, but, that's how I, that's how I learned. And actually back then, they still have 'em today they had this device that goes on the neck and you could press a button, you got a C chord, press
another one,
[00:00:59] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Right.
[00:00:59] Rick Sammon: chord [00:01:00] and
I think they actually, I saw when recently, but, yeah, that's how I learned. But, speaking of the Beatles photography, do you know Harry Benson?
[00:01:10] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: recognize the name.
[00:01:12] Rick Sammon: Benson is a, was a Beatles
photographer.
[00:01:15] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay?
[00:01:15] Rick Sammon: more
People magazine than any other photographer photographed. Michael Jackson, the Reagans, the Kennedy, you could
go on and
[00:01:24] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:01:24] Rick Sammon: anyway, movie about him. It's called, I think, shoot it, Harry Benson shoot it or shoot
me, something
[00:01:31] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Benson
Okay.
[00:01:33] Rick Sammon: Anyway, people ask him all the time. You know, Harry, you know, you, you've been around for a long time. You've got the People magazine, the Life magazine, the Beatles.
What's your advice to someone who wants to be a
photographer?
[00:01:45] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:01:46] Rick Sammon: a guitar. It's
funny.
[00:01:50] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:01:50] Rick Sammon: but it's,
it, it's, it's a good way to make a living with music too,
for sure.
[00:01:55] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Of course, fun, creative. There's so many overlaps between the two [00:02:00] genres as, as, you know, we've come to see over the, over the years, and which is why the show exists now, which is, which is great. so
[00:02:08] Rick Sammon: idea
[00:02:09] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah, I really appreciate it. I'm, I'm glad you think so. so.
[00:02:13] Berklee College of Music
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[00:02:13] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Right before we hit record, you mentioned to me, because I shared with you that I went to Berklee and I was a dropout
with Berklee.
Berklee has a very high dropout rate, probably the highest of any college
in the country.
[00:02:26] Rick Sammon: think schools had a high dropout rate too. Look, we're just not around
anymore,
[00:02:31] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: right
[00:02:31] Rick Sammon: Right,
[00:02:32] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep.
[00:02:33] Rick Sammon: ho,
up by Amherst. Anyway.
[00:02:35] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: so, so when you were at Berklee, was your major guitar
or was something else?
[00:02:41] Rick Sammon: when I was there. You could specialize in an instrument or arrange it in composition. I specialize in a range in composition, which I think is the
key,
[00:02:50] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Hmm. Yeah. I, so I got in playing clarinet and and then day one, so I, my major was [00:03:00] music recording 'cause I wanted to own a recording studio and record bands for a living. That was my. My goal, so day one, because I knew I couldn't get in playing guitar. day one I switched to bass guitar. Like I didn't play clarinet even once at Berklee. and I just switched my I switched my core instrument on day one, and
[00:03:21] Rick Sammon: bass more than anything
now.
[00:03:23] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Really?
[00:03:24] Rick Sammon: know what changed my
mind?
[00:03:26] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:26] Rick Sammon: not
we are recording.
[00:03:28] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: We're recording.
Yeah.
[00:03:31] Rick Sammon: I saw the, I dunno if you've watched any of the masterclasses. I saw, you know, Anna Winters, I saw, you know, a, a
bunch of 'em.
[00:03:39] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:40] Rick Sammon: the and the whole Santana one.
He never talks about, you know, what key,
he's
[00:03:46] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm.
[00:03:46] Rick Sammon: the notes
talking about the feeling and the emotion, things like that. And after watching that, I said to myself, I can never play guitar like Santana, but I could play bass, like Santana's bass player, basically the root in the fifth.
I mean, [00:04:00]
[00:04:00] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:04:00] Rick Sammon: and the
the seventh for some time. So I, yeah, I, I think the bass, well, as you
know,
[00:04:06] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm-hmm.
[00:04:07] Rick Sammon: know, the key
band is a bass and the
drums.
[00:04:09] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Oh, yeah. It's the, that's the, that's the heartbeat. So, yeah.
[00:04:14] Combining Music and Visual Arts
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[00:04:14] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So were were you ever in a band that did touring, that, did concerts, anything like that? Was it, or was it primarily, fun jamming out with, with the guys or, or whoever it was, like, what was the, what was it like for, for that aspect?
Mm-hmm.
[00:04:30] Rick Sammon: and I were in a, It wasn't a band, it's just us. We used to play on Long
Island,
[00:04:35] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay.
[00:04:35] Rick Sammon: clubs. One was my father's place that some people may remembered. We had like the amplifiers and the mics and all this stuff. And she's an amazing singer and a very good guitar player, but she just, doesn't want to do it.
So I played by myself
[00:04:50] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Well,
I,
[00:04:51] Rick Sammon: a lot of
[00:04:53] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah, by, by myself is pretty much all I do these days. pull out the acoustic and
[00:05:00] say it again.
[00:05:00] Rick Sammon: Chordify,
like
[00:05:05] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: it's like ultimate guitar, I, I use Ultimate Guitar, but it sounds like it could be a similar thing.
[00:05:11] Rick Sammon: Chordify is, is you type in any song, like a Santana song like,moon
Flower is
[00:05:16] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay.
[00:05:18] Rick Sammon: You type in Moon Flower, and then in a second you get all the chords. music. So you could play along with Santana or Clapton. What it does is it, it picks it up from YouTube, okay? And then in a second it transposes it
or,
[00:05:35] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:05:36] Rick Sammon: it this, this cheat sheet. And you, you play along with it. I've learned so much, so
[00:05:42] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm-hmm.
[00:05:43] Rick Sammon: fly me to the
of my, favorite jazz songs. I play this on that. So every night I can play with someone really famous and sound good
[00:05:51] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: That's great. I'm, I'm definitely,
[00:05:52] Rick Sammon: Chordify
[00:05:53] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I definitely have to, definitely have to check that out. so, your favorite genre of music to play? Is it [00:06:00] jazz? I, I think that's, from what I can tell from, you know, the YouTube videos you put out and stuff like that. Seems like that's your favorite.
[00:06:07] Rick Sammon: Chick
[00:06:07] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
Nice.
[00:06:09] Rick Sammon: is,
of my favorites. what I do is, and it's really fun, I'll get an idea like, one of my favorite jazz songs wasn't a
jazz song,
[00:06:17] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:17] Rick Sammon: it into a
been recorded as jazz song. It was over the rainbow.
[00:06:21] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Oh.
[00:06:21] Rick Sammon: I got all
together and I played
over the rainbow.
in Antarctica and I saw this beau. many pictures of the beautiful, beautiful blue ice in it. So. Silent and clear. So there's a Chick career song called crystal Silence. I played crystal silence along to, to these, another one with clouds. another chick career song, 500 miles high.
So anyway, it's a lot of fun. So I, I do, I put 'em together in, in iMovie. I recorded, I caught it recorded with my iPhone, which
is amazing, with a good mic.
I do the whole thing. It's, it's a, it's a good project.
[00:06:55] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. That's fun. I love that you're combining the, the visual with the [00:07:00] audio, to, to create this. It's just another way to blend two, two beautiful arts together. It's so, it's so awesome.
[00:07:09] Rick Sammon: you know, do that. you know,
[00:07:10] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah. Yeah.
[00:07:12] Rick Sammon: show. He is really a great musician. I wasn't gonna say good, but he's great.
[00:07:19] Defining Moments in Music
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[00:07:19] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: was there was there a, has, was there any defining moment that you had as, as, a musician? and we're gonna talk more photography side of things as well, but for the meantime, like as a musician, is there a defining moment that has impacted your life? maybe not necessarily like specific to music, but something that happened musically, changed your world in some way.
[00:07:41] Rick Sammon: I would say See, no kidding. The side, seeing the Beatles. Seeing the Beatles was mega, being at, being at Woodstock in 1969 I, I drove my Volkswagen bus, you know, up
to Woodstock.
[00:07:54] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:55] Rick Sammon: are
know, I go with my friends, were in the back, and we, would go to [00:08:00] Woodstock, I'd say seeing, Santana there, Santana, Was just mind blowing and then waking up to see Hendrix play the Star-Spangled Banner. You know, Richie Havens who opened it and improvised as you know, he just was faking it because, the other act didn't show up. stills in Nash, I would say Woodstock, and I talked to a lot of people who went, they said that was a, a defining moment in their life.
I said, And then after that I went to, we used to call it Berserk Lee because all the guitar players were like stoned all the time walking around with, they came.
[00:08:38] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, my, my, my, first day at Berklee, they had like an opening performance and I guess, I guess, at least while, I don't know how long they've been doing in that, but, I, I was there, in, I graduated high school in 2000, so I was there I guess in 2000. and,They had, [00:09:00] Stevie Ray Vaughan do a solo performance on day one, and we all just, you know, sit there and enjoy it.
It was really cool.
[00:09:08] Rick Sammon: Mary
talk about being creative that he turned Mary, you, you've
heard that version
[00:09:14] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: mm-hmm.
Yep.
[00:09:16] Rick Sammon: he
turn Mary had a little lamb into one of the best rock songs
ever, was
[00:09:21] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Yeah.
It's, it.
[00:09:25] Rick Sammon: not all so many musicians died. And in plane crashes. He, he was amazing.
I saw him with a blues player, not BB King. Albert
King.
[00:09:35] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay.
[00:09:36] Rick Sammon: King.
Look, look it up. BB King. Albert King, amazing.
[00:09:42] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Nice. Yeah, definitely. so.
[00:09:45] Transition to Photography
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[00:09:45] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: What was, what was the shift like? How did music turn into photography? Where, where did the photography come into it? Or was it always there? Sort of like underlying, how did that come to be?
[00:09:56] Rick Sammon: my father, my father worked, in
television
[00:09:59] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: [00:10:00] Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
[00:10:02] Rick Sammon: Not You, lot of your listeners, and viewers may not know it was called Person to Person in the fifties. It was Edward R. Murrow. There's a show on Broadway. good Night and good Luck about Edward R. Murrow.
It was a very famous
journalist.
[00:10:14] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: That, isn't that the,
is that the George Clooney show that he's doing?
got it.
[00:10:19] Rick Sammon: so he was
Edward R. Murrow, my father directed Edward R. Murrow's show where at the end of the show, Murrow said goodnight and good luck. Anyway, my father was a still photographer and the director of the show. So back then in the fifties, he would take us four by five Lin Hoff view camera. To Marilyn Monroe House. Humphrey Bogart's house. He would fly out there, take the stills, come back, develop the negatives in our basement, bring 'em to work so they could figure out where to put the cameras and, and the lights. I mean, this is what they had to do
back then.
[00:10:52] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Right.
[00:10:54] Rick Sammon: he was always into photography and my mother then would hand color some of, some of the pictures. So [00:11:00] I grew up. Then he had like a, a, a, a cannon, a 35 millimeter camera, the Polaroid camera. Actually, there's a Polaroid back for the four by five. You peel off the, the stuff, anyway, so I was surrounded by, photography growing up. So, you know, I always liked it, but I wanted to be a musician. So, to make a long story short, I'm gonna try to make it short. So we, my wife and I got married in 1975. I'm teaching and got outta Berklee teaching, guitar and piano lessons on Long Island for $7 a half an hour. And so I'm sitting around and I'm taking pictures and things like that. my wife was working in the city, actually, at CBS tv, and she said, why don't you, she brought home all these, magazines, she said, why don't you send a picture to, one of the magazines?
So I sent a picture to the magazine. It got published. Then, the, the editor called me up. She says, could you write an article? I said, well, I've never written an article in my life or a magazine. I'm a musician, so write the article. So I write, [00:12:00] write the article. It gets published. The publisher calls me up.
He says, you wanna be the editor of the magazine. So I took the job because I wasn't making that much money at $7 a half an
hour,
[00:12:12] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Right.
[00:12:12] Rick Sammon: gotten
So I was the editor of Studio for Photography Magazine for three years, with no experience. Then the head of the Minolta camera, yeah, the Minolta camera account at Bozel and Jake was one of the biggest advertising agencies, in the world. calls me up 'cause you, like what I did with studio photography, says, you wanna head up the Minolta account? No experience. So I, I like, quadruple my salary. So I said, sure. So from 1980 to 1990, I was the editor. I was the, I was the, the head of, the head of the, the Minolta account. And I got to interview people like Arthur Rothstein. One of the most. He was with the FSA, the Farm Security Administration. I still have these articles 'cause these guys are great photographers. [00:13:00] Ger.so I, I loved that job 'cause I got to meet so many Karsh of Ottawa, Yousuf Karsh. I got to interview Karsh of Ottawa then, five years into, anyway, and then I got outta the advertising agency and started to do this.
[00:13:20] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Seems like all of this that led up to you doing photography,
you know, writing an, writing an article, at least, at least that one, and then becoming an editor. You've probably wrote more throughout that time. Now how many books have you written? Because, because it, it's led to that for sure. You've, you've written a lot of books.
[00:13:46] Rick Sammon: books
[00:13:47] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It's a lot.
[00:13:49] Rick Sammon: Well, my fingers are tired.
That's the thing.
[00:13:51] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, I'm sure.
[00:13:53] Rick Sammon: my favorite book, phototherapy Motivation and Wisdom of the 43 books, Scott, this is my bestselling
[00:14:00] book
[00:14:00] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:14:00] Rick Sammon: get this
not one picture.
[00:14:06] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. All text.
[00:14:09] Rick Sammon: I didn't want people to be distracted by pretty pictures, sunsets or wildlife
[00:14:14] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:14:14] Rick Sammon: know,
[00:14:16] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:14:16] Rick Sammon: people to
on what their photography means to them. And, so I have, yeah, 43 books. I have almost 60 Kelby one classes, but. I still play.
guitar. Maybe we could
[00:14:29] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: play
[00:14:30] Rick Sammon: I like to play blues. We could play a 1, 4, 5, or once for the musicians who are listening at 1, 4 5. Or we could play the circle of fifths, you know, 1, 7, 6, 2, 5, 3, 1,
right?
[00:14:43] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, it, it's, it's, it's funny, I, it's, been so long since I stopped playing in a band that it's almost, not uncomfortable and like, this doesn't feel right, but uncomfortable and like I almost forget what to do [00:15:00] when I'm playing with somebody else. You know what I mean? Like,
Yeah.
[00:15:04] Rick Sammon: is You, with Santana, Clapton, any, anybody, co no Chordify. I, I recommend Chordify
to,
[00:15:14] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: good. Check that out.
yeah, I'm going to it for sure. photographing bands since that shift to photography and music is more of the photography became your, your, your business, right? Music became more of like what your. Your, your passion, I guess became more of the, the hobby for lack of better word, right.
At that point. did you ever photograph bands either informally or professionally?
[00:15:41] Rick Sammon: no,
[00:15:42] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Never.
[00:15:44] Rick Sammon: actually just, we're
this in, in, late
July.
[00:15:47] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:15:48] Rick Sammon: just published some
back in March. We went to a concert, in New York City called God's Love. I have great seats and I just published a picture of, Grace Bowers. I don't know if you know her. Amazing, amazing. [00:16:00] like 27-year-old guitar player. Peter Frampton
was there. I
[00:16:04] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Oh, nice.
[00:16:05] Rick Sammon: at the
'cause I just published them today on, on social media. So, yeah, photographing bands is, kind of
tricky 'cause
[00:16:13] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:16:13] Rick Sammon: first in the
you know,
[00:16:15] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep.
[00:16:15] Rick Sammon: location,
[00:16:17] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep.
[00:16:17] Rick Sammon: you know, the
lights, the red lights, the blue lights, you know, and so, so.
[00:16:22] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Yeah, I, photographing bands has always been one of my favorite things to do. I've never done it. I photograph, like press photos for bands, right? Where you're, you're posing them, you're positioning them, whatever it might be. And maybe you're controlling the light more than, than you, than not. But I've never done a concert professionally more just for myself for fun.
But I enjoy it. 'cause it is, it is hard and it's fast paced.so it's, it's a lot of, a lot of fun to have to figure it all out on the, on the fly. And I find that.when you know the music, it helps you photograph it so [00:17:00] much better. when like, yeah.
[00:17:02] Rick Sammon: That is,
I don't think I could find it. I respect you because for a lot of reasons. But one is that that is not easy to
do,
[00:17:10] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:17:11] Rick Sammon: I think what you
know, knowing the music is, important. But
speaking of
[00:17:15] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:16] Woodstock Memories and Reflections
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[00:17:16] Rick Sammon: being in my office, you'd be interviewing me from my yacht I had had a camera at Woodstock.
[00:17:25] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I am sure.
[00:17:25] Rick Sammon: We not have been closer to the, we were at the stage. We got there early, the whole concert, I was like 50 feet, maybe a hundred feet away, I didn't have a camera. And I know, you know, Henry Diltz, all these other, other people, they've made a fortune out
[00:17:42] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. But I also wonder. Would your experience at Woodstock have been different if you were behind the camera more than being in the moment and just enjoying the music,
would it have been different?
[00:17:57] Rick Sammon: I can't remember too much about what, [00:18:00] for obvious reasons, what happened at Woodstock. I, I really can, I can't, I can't answer that,
[00:18:06] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: What happens at Woodstock stays at Woodstock.
Yeah.
[00:18:09] Rick Sammon: it, I
would've been, I think it would've been, different.
[00:18:13] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:18:13] Rick Sammon: Because I was
to, you know, that was, I talked to people that was such a different time. You know, are not going going easy for a lot of people
right now
[00:18:26] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Oh, yeah, there's a like, yeah, I, I, I speak to a lot of wedding photographers every day, for my, and my, for my full-time job. And there, there are wedding photographers that are striving, right, doing extremely well. But I would say for the most part, there's a lot of wedding photographers. That are hurting
bookings this year.
So, I think I know what the answer to my next question's gonna be based on our conversation so far, but I'm gonna ask it anyway.
[00:18:53] Dream Bands to Jam With
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[00:18:53] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: if you could hop on stage with any band, past or present to jam out, who would it be?[00:19:00]
[00:19:00] Rick Sammon: Santana.
It's the
[00:19:02] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Oh, I thought you were gonna go with the Beatles, but Santana is still good. It's still a good answer.
[00:19:07] Rick Sammon: he's a very spiritual, person. I would like to meet, Paul McCartney. We were at a concert re a Backyard. We live in, Croton Hudson, New York, and someone has a party in our, in our neighborhood every year. had a Greg Allman there in their backyard
[00:19:22] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm.
[00:19:24] Rick Sammon: Dave Mason from Traffic there and this year Jackson Brown was there Jackson Brown was so good.
He played, longer than he needed to play. And he was just so giving and caring. So I wouldn't mind playing with Jackson Brown.
[00:19:40] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: All, all,
[00:19:42] Rick Sammon: actually after
friend and I, we went to California 'cause I wanted to be in Joni Mitchell's band.
[00:19:50] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay.
[00:19:50] Rick Sammon: had a Martin
Now I have a Martin, DD 18. but Joni Mitchell's amazing. know what a poet, what a
poet.
[00:19:59] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: [00:20:00] Yeah.that just reminded me. Did you watch the, um
[00:20:04] Rick Sammon: Laurel Canyon
[00:20:05] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: that's like the, about Bob Dylan, the one that's like about his life?
Was that the name of the movie?
The
[00:20:13] Rick Sammon: we
[00:20:13] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yes.
[00:20:14] Rick Sammon: right?
[00:20:14] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. I thought it was such, so, so well done. you know, those are my favorite type of movies by the way. Like the one that was,walk the Line, the one about Johnny Cash. Like, I just, I love those movies 'cause they're, you still learn about the, the person as a documentary aspect goes, but it's not quite docu a documentary, which could be a little more on the boring side sometimes. you know what I mean? Like, it's, A little, a little more exciting for the, the drama of Hollywood to be added to it.
but I loved it. It was so good.
[00:20:45] Rick Sammon: A Complete Unknown
[00:20:46] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Complete unknown. Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:20:48] Rick Sammon: Laurel Canyon's good.
And Muscle Shoals
about a
[00:20:51] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm.
[00:20:52] Rick Sammon: studio
where everyone went to play. Uh uh, what was just, it was just [00:21:00] amazing.
[00:21:00] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: did you hear,
[00:21:02] Rick Sammon: Go ahead.
[00:21:02] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: it again.
[00:21:03] Rick Sammon: 20 feet from stardom was a good one about backup singers.
[00:21:07] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.did you see that there's a Bruce Springsteen movie coming out
similar to the
[00:21:14] Rick Sammon: I wanna, I wanna
see that. I
[00:21:16] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:21:16] Rick Sammon: guy.
[00:21:17] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: so Bruce Springsteen grew up in the town that I live in,
and
[00:21:21] Rick Sammon: The
[00:21:21] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah, he's very, he still comes, John Bonjovi. They just had lunch downtown at the diner, John Bonjovi and Bruce Springsteen. and they filmed. Winter scene and a, I guess a summer scene downtown. taking all the buildings and putting the facade up to make it look like it was in the seventies and, and eighties, I guess, of him growing up.
and yeah, yeah, I'm really excited for that, to, that to come out, and see my town not look like my town. It's gonna be really interesting.
[00:21:54] Rick Sammon: maybe you get some pictures.
[00:21:55] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, so they, they, they filmed [00:22:00] downtown in like two days. It was, they, the facade was up and the facade was down. You wouldn't even know they were there.
They were, yeah, they were so fast, but they had to do it twice 'cause they needed the different seasons, I guess. but yeah, it was cool.do you feel that there was any part of anything that stands out musically? T
[00:22:19] The Art of Listening and Seeing
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[00:22:19] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: hat impacts the way you approach photography.
[00:22:23] Rick Sammon: well, yes, and here it is. At Berklee, I, one of the best things I learned was that there's a big difference between listening and, and hearing. So in other words, you could be driving, you and I could be driving around in the car and we could have Bruce Springsteen on and we're going to the diner and we could be saying, oh, I'm gonna have, you know, a club sandwich or a wrap, or stuff like that. And we're just hearing the music. But if we're driving around by ourselves, we're listening to the music and we're listening to the bass, we're listening to, you know, know what, what the guitar play is doing. We're listening to the, to the, space [00:23:00] between the notes. We're listening to the, to the difference in, in, in volume.
So we're listening. So in photography, there's a big difference between looking and seeing so non, and that's why people who are watching this, folks who are watching this, who are photographers should be really happy. Because they see the world differently because non photographers just look. They could be, you know, at the Grand Canyon, oh, this is beautiful.
But a photographer's gonna be, you know, looking into the shadows, they're gonna be looking at the highlights. They're gonna be, you know, cutting the clutter. You know, if they could only take one picture, what would that one picture be? So they're gonna be thinking about composition, they're gonna be thinking, moving around. So I think being a musici, well, I know, I know being a musician gives you a, a greater appreciation for music. And being a photographer, definitely gives you a greater appreciation, I think, for life.
[00:23:49] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Well said. Well said.
[00:23:51] Rick Sammon: is.
I mean,
[00:23:53] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah,
[00:23:53] Rick Sammon: am at,
age, I, I just wake up. every day I wake up, I'm, I'm glad that I wake up, but some people my
[00:24:00] age don't,
[00:24:00] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: of course.
[00:24:00] Rick Sammon: wake up.
I'm
I was watching this guy talk about
this recently,
[00:24:04] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm.
[00:24:05] Rick Sammon: some But anyway, the gift of sight is just amazing. know, we see, actually, we see everything upside down. But our brain puts it, puts it this way. And the other thing is, you know, you're looking at me and the people are, are seeing me and you.
Or if they look around the room while they're, watching this, you know, they say everything's in focus like a 35 millimeter lens, you know, stop down F 22. Well, everything is not in focus when we see it. It's just that our mind this all together and so everything looks in focus. I mean, brain and the eyes are just like. Just like amazing.
[00:24:44] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah, yeah. It, it, and it, it's always inspirational when you come across a photo of, from a place that you might have photographed before. It's completely different take and it's just, you know, you might have taken the time and really thought about how would I photograph this? [00:25:00] But then somebody else could be in the same spot, same exact spot with the feet in the same place, but a completely different take.
'cause they vision things different than, that's the beautiful thing. It's a such a beautiful thing.
[00:25:12] Rick Sammon: a beautiful thing and, I'm blown away. You know, today on Instagram or wherever, on Facebook, I see a picture. I say, unbelievable, and it's by someone I never heard of. You know, some, some amateur or some non-professional who goes someplace and gets the most
amazing
[00:25:31] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Yep, for sure.
[00:25:34] Rick Sammon: with musicians. There's so many talented musicians out
there
[00:25:38] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah.
[00:25:38] Rick Sammon: that you
[00:25:40] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So I, I,I'm, I'm in an, I go to karate school. And actually next week I text test from my black belt, as well, which is exciting.
[00:25:48] Rick Sammon: more impressed with you
now.
[00:25:50] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Thank you. and, we have a new white who has joined from Ano. He, he left a previous karate school he was in, joined ours. He had a start, has to start over at White [00:26:00] Belt and he is a musician, full-time musician.
lived in Nashville for many years. Now he's here and he's performing at the Jersey beaches all summer. And, you know, just hearing a fresh, fresh sound from someone I just met. and he is darn good. Yeah. And it's just, it's so inspiring to like, make me wanna pick up the guitar more and write or just jam out and, and just have some fun.
It's, it's, it's so nice.
[00:26:31] Rick Sammon: think, I
think we need to, to get inspired
[00:26:35] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Oh yeah.
[00:26:35] Rick Sammon: and listening to musicians does that, like you said, looking at other people's
work
[00:26:41] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep,
[00:26:42] Rick Sammon: us.
[00:26:43] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep,
[00:26:43] Rick Sammon: There's a great
called, steal Like an Artist
as Acid Co
Kleon. And it starts out with a quote by Salvador Dali.
And the quote is, those who imit imitate nothing, create nothing or something. those who [00:27:00] imitate those, something like those are the people don't imitate, create nothing. So we try to imitate and that's a great way to
learn.
[00:27:07] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, for sure. I, I completely agree. I think, I think a lot of peop, a lot of people in both the music and photography space have always thought that, but I think when that book came out, it sort of, simplified that thought for a lot of people that it's okay.
it's okay.
And, yeah, it was, it was, it's definitely a great book.
[00:27:31] Rick Sammon: is called, it's, I did a, i I I copied Vermeer's Girl with a Pearl earring. Vermeer's most famous painting. I think it's some his most famous painting. So in my studio here, I just set up, one light a.in a soft box and I got my neighbor's daughter and we got all the same kind of,bands, headband and the dress and everything like that. And it was so much fun to try to try to do this. And I, I was trying to get the catch light in the same place.as, [00:28:00] as, as Vermeer has in the eyes, I was trying to get the shadow on the same side, the same, you know, ratio of the, of the highlights of the shadow. So it's a great setting. It's a, I'm a very goal oriented person, which is why I have 43 books and almost 60 glasses.
So, a goal is, it's, it's really important in
life.
[00:28:18] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. Completely agree.
[00:28:22] Rick Sammon: if I,
[00:28:23] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah.
[00:28:23] Rick Sammon: in. So,
sorry to interrupt.
[00:28:25] Health and Inspiration in Photography
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[00:28:25] Rick Sammon: main goal is staying healthy. I know so many people like you're the black belt karate. My hat's off to you. I know so many people my age who do not exercise,
do
[00:28:36] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm.
[00:28:36] Rick Sammon: healthy. I, I
three hours a day exercising.
[00:28:39] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: You
you,
[00:28:40] Rick Sammon: my
[00:28:40] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah. You cycle, I think, right? Yeah. I think I've, I
[00:28:43] Rick Sammon: and I walk you know, I was the, you are not too far from me. 35 minutes north of Croton. Hudson is the largest Buddhist temple in the United States. It's amazing. It's in Kent, New York. If everyone, if anyone wants to go, if you want to go Kent, New York, [00:29:00] amazing. It's a great place to photograph. The grounds are beautiful. It's a monastery. Anyway, we're up there many years ago. We've lived here for 40 years and I meet the head of the Buddhist Association of the United States there, and I, I'm talking to him and saying thank you and things like that. And I said to him, I said, what's the most important thing in Buddhism? being healthy.
[00:29:26] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:29:26] Rick Sammon: he said,
what else can you do? Right?
being healthy is so,
is so
important.
[00:29:34] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I, it, that is for sure.
I, I'll, I'll tell you, when my instructor told me the date that I was going up for my test with a couple other people, I was at the highest weight that I've ever been at. And I've been dealing with weight going up for years and, partially because of a thyroid thing going on, and,I'm now lower than I have [00:30:00] been in a very, very, very long time. I've lost over 10 pounds, which for, a type of exercise where you have to move your entire body all over the floor and do a bunch of things, losing that weight feels good.
[00:30:18] Rick Sammon: I
[00:30:18] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah, healthy is, there's nothing more important than that at all.
It is.
[00:30:24] Rick Sammon: if you're not healthy, if you don't feel good, how can you get inspired to take a picture? How can you get, get inspired? You know, if you eat a, a giant, you know,
[00:30:32] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:30:33] Rick Sammon: and have
two glasses of wine, how can you do anything in the afternoon?
[00:30:37] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah,
[00:30:38] Rick Sammon: people who do
[00:30:39] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep. Yep.
[00:30:41] Rick Sammon: in the, at five o'clock.
[00:30:44] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: one final question for you, Rick, and that is, are there any specific songs or specific albums that inspire your photography?
[00:30:54] Musical Playlists for Creativity
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[00:30:54] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Not necessarily like one photo, but overall, is there something that, if you were, let's [00:31:00] say, going for a walk with your camera, what is the one thing you would listen to to just help inspire you to photograph
more?
[00:31:08] Rick Sammon: I dunno if
but I, I mentioned that I put together, you know, the, my pictures with the, with the music, I would say on my deathbed, which I hope is a long time from
now,
[00:31:18] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Very long time.
[00:31:18] Rick Sammon: what's song you wanna hear? I would have to say, here comes the sun. George Harrison, that is such, such a beautiful,
simple
[00:31:29] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:31:29] Rick Sammon: as, you know,
few chords.
But when he does that, that, the, the third, you know, the step down,
you know,
[00:31:35] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:37] Rick Sammon: after the, the, the 1, 4, 5, it's just so beautiful and so simple and such a good message.
[00:31:45] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: A hundred percent.
Well said.
Oh man.
so I like all genres of music. but I have, I actually do have, a. Oh, I only have two [00:32:00] playlists that I have on my phone for two specific things. One is yard work,
[00:32:06] Rick Sammon: Okay.
[00:32:06] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: which is just like very, very like upbeat rock music to, to keep me going, moving around the lawn mowing and doing what I gotta do.
The other one is zen mode,
it's when I want to just be creative and focus zen mode. And it's actually just, there's no lyrics in any of it. It's a lot of. Instrumental music that is relaxing and gets me feeling creative. so that would be my two.
[00:32:34] Rick Sammon: a zen.
[00:32:35] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:32:36] Rick Sammon: too, yard work.
[00:32:39] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah,
[00:32:39] Rick Sammon: you work. I love cutting the lawn. I love trimming the bushes, weed whacking. It's all
there,
[00:32:44] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:32:45] Rick Sammon: you
[00:32:45] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It's, it's great exercise.
[00:32:47] Rick Sammon: and it doesn't require a lot of brain work. And how, how, how,productive do you feel at
the end?
[00:32:52] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, yeah,
[00:32:54] Rick Sammon: this.
[00:32:54] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah. After a hard, long day of work, or like a week, and I now need to [00:33:00] spend a Saturday doing yard work, whatever it is, it's a good way to forget about everything else going on in life. And you just like, I'm making the yard look good.
Nothing else, nothing about anything else. So, Rick, I really appreciate you spending time and, and hanging and, and chatting about music and photography.
I'm gonna link to, everything that you mentioned and of course, your website in the show notes. From this episode, is there anything, any specific place or thing or book that you wanted to, listeners to, to check out?
[00:33:31] Rick Sammon: my website, if you go on the left, you'll see something called Rick's Music Room, where I have some actually guitar and, and a piano lessons
free.
[00:33:39] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Amazing. Amazing,
[00:33:41] Rick Sammon: that's it.
[00:33:43] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: amazing. I really appreciate it. Again, thank you for spending time with me on this.
[00:33:47] Rick Sammon: to a fellow musician and, and a photographer. Maybe we'll get to, play some, play some
time.
[00:33:53] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It would be lovely if we can do that.
[00:33:55] Rick Sammon: or go to the Buddhist
temple.
[00:33:57] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah.
[00:33:59] Rick Sammon: the, look it [00:34:00] up. Uh uh, you may wanna look it up. Buddhist Temple, Kent, New York. It's, it's amazing. closed from December 31st, April 1st because they can't afford to, snowplow the road 'cause it's a long
road up to the
[00:34:13] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay.
[00:34:15] Rick Sammon: Well thank you so much, Scott, for
having me.
[00:34:17] Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Thank you.